The trouble with Ruto and why OKA is reluctant to support Raila

You headed the YK92 that was blamed for the collapse of the economy in the 90s. Did you destroy Kenya’s economy and politics?

No. Everybody knows Goldenberg scandal was responsible for the economic downturn. Just because we were spending money that we used to be given at the YK92 does not mean we destroyed the economy. If it was possible, or had it happened, then all of us would have died in jail; but it is the bigwigs who perpetrated the Goldenberg that tried to portray the picture that it was the YK. Some of them were exporting slashers from Kenya and in return get compensation.

Go look at those invoices. They would also bring in dollars and then get 30 per cent free money and you have exported nothing. You go to the streets, buy dollars then come and say I have brought in these dollars and you get 30 per cent of that money. Free money. That is how the Kenyan economy was messed up. Had we touched anything, this would have been the best escape route for those who stole the money and we would have been locked up in jail.

How many enemies have I had? You know I say things straight. I fought with Moi, I fought with Biwott, and I fought with Saitoti. Even with my friend Uhuru, but I met him the other day and we are now friends. They took everything I had including estates that I was investing in with borrowed money from banks. I have been a victim of very good business that turned terrible because people wanted to cover up Goldenberg.

To date, you can even trace houses of very senior Kenyans bought by Goldenberg cash. Assets, leave alone the cash. You can trace them if you want. People know these things. My friend, had I stolen an egg, I would have died in jail because of my loud mouth; because I say it the way it is.

If you look at the 1992 politics, it was necessary Mzee Moi wins and we had to fight for him to win. Otherwise, we would not have escaped bloodshed. And even when handing over power to Kibaki, we talked to people like Boinnet. Some of us we had to really put our feet down for things to go on smoothly.

Dr Boinnet, the country’s director for intelligence, he will tell the role some us played. That is how it was in 1992. At that time, we were known as Kanu youth? It was boys with tattered clothes, torn trousers and torn young shirts, could some young men in business come and associate themselves with Kanu. That is what we did and we changed the entire political scenario.

Around that same time, Sh500 note was named after you – informally though. How did it feel?

Yes, the Sh500 note, even now it is being called Jirongo in some sectors because it came out when I was the boy on the block. I did not feel anything. It never even bothered me. I never thought or even think about it. The money did not belong to me but to every Kenyan. It is just like the time we used to call the Sh100 note the Kenyatta Conference Centre, when we used to call the Sh40 coin Ka Lucy. You get it? Forty shillings does not belong to Lucy neither the Sh100 note nor the shillings when we used to call it the Maasai, it does not mean they belong to the Maasai.

Having money on your name must have brought you trouble with friends, right? You see Jirongo, you see money.

Yes, I know. Ladies have changed, really changed. Our girls now are very aggressive. Those days, women were very shy. Even with money, you still had to work at it. These days, they are damn aggressive. 

Are you running for an office?

That is a decision I will make once I see we have a solid foundation leading to August next year. That the country’s is safe. The second objective has been achieved. I have enough candidates who can call the shots in the National Assembly and the Senate, and then I make a decision.

After years of political hiatus, you suddenly joined OKA as a principal. Why OKA?

When I rated the politicians, OKA seemed to have those that you can panel beat and get truth out of. The rest is just something beyond, incorrigible. OKA has a team which can be trusted if you can push and if somebody puts his foot down. I have not come to look for seats but I want to try and force in genuineness. We all live in this country, if anything goes wrong, we will all be affected. You have heard me say I have come in to support my brother Mudavadi. I have also asked Wetang’ula to do the same. We cannot say he is incapable yet we have never supported him; let us give him support and see how far he can go. I believe he is one of the decent men in this country. Kalonzo is also a very decent man. Gideon Moi too. They are people you can work with and are reliable. The rest, you cannot be sure.

That only leaves out Ruto and Raila, at least as far as 2022 is concerned. Are you saying they are not reliable political players?

I have no major issues with Mzee Raila but when I talked with the OKA leaders who have worked with him, they believe he has taken advantage of them. That being a presidential candidate, he ended up getting most MPs because leaders always want to associate with a presidential candidate and when the pay came for the political parties, he said, you know I have more seats and he forgot that it is the support that he got from the rest that enabled him to get the more seats.

They also have an issue that they have supported him for 15 years and he has always said that he’ll only be going for five years. Are we really ready to sacrifice another five years to make it 20? Anyway, people are talking, we are talking deeply. We are looking first at the interest of the country. The interest of the country must come first.

There are indications that OKA and Raila are working on a possible alliance again, how do they work with someone they do not trust?

It is a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea; what do you choose? You can struggle and swim, the devil, you will not handle. That is the issue, we would rather sit down, see where things went wrong, how we move forward rather than leaving the country to some appetite that is insatiable. That is when you think about the country and say, maybe we can live with a few of these problems rather than letting the things go to the devil and we end up not having a country anymore. 

If OKA agrees to work with Raila, will he become the candidate?

There is a future possibility that Raila may be part of OKA because I do not see the damage done between those who have worked with Raila being irreparable. It is something that can be worked on.

What is your role in OKA?

I would be pushing that it stays together. If I went and said I want A, B, C and D, people will not take it serious compared to when I say my interest is Kenya first. The people I am working with will then say, you have done a good job Jirongo, now sit here. That is not my preference, but to have this country together. My preference is, I have a party, the United Democratic Party (UDP). I will be moving to ensure we have enough MPs, senators, governors, so that even within the government as a member of OKA, you could be a check, a voice of reason, where we say the promises we gave must be kept.

It appears the opposition against DP Ruto’s State House bid unites all these players than any other serious agenda for the country. Why is it so?

In Kalenjin tradition, when something goes wrong, you send the elders to go and apologise for you and then you get an opportunity to repent and say you are sorry. Ruto tried sending elders to Moi and the former president refused. What did he do that Moi defied Kalenjin elders? That is a question you must ask yourself. The one thing you must ask yourself, is, naturally when men of the cloth try to intervene, you listen. The bishops have tried to intervene with Uhuru, but he has refused. Why has he refused? Those are questions we should ask.

I started with Ruto, some of these things we cannot say. The things I found out about him cannot allow us to work together. It is beyond repair. Even though politicians are never permanent enemies, go ask Mzee Raila about Ruto and he will also tell you. People must ask themselves these questions. Are all these people wrong? What is it? There are some things that are not printable and we cannot say. Do you want to tell me that everyone is wrong about Ruto? Moi was wrong; Jirongo is wrong; Raila is wrong; Uhuru is wrong; Musalia is wrong; Martha Karua is wrong; Wiper’s Kalonzo is wrong, Wetang’ula is wrong? Now, are all these people wrong and only one person is right.

Why do you rally against the DP this much?

I do not hate him. He was my boy; he worked for me for seven years but he has an insatiable appetite for material things. I have never seen an appetite like that. People have never found out why I kicked him out.

Some say you are jealous because the deputy president outshone you and succeeded politically yet he was your in YK92. Don’t you think that the case?

That is the most ridiculous thing for people to say. Yes, I have heard it being said. Is he outshining Uhuru? Certainly not, Uhuru is the boss. What axe then can we say Uhuru has to grind with him? Was he outshining Moi? Moi was a retired president, what axe did Moi have to grind with him?

Ruto and his team are power hungry. They may plot to remove term limit. That constitution will be changed tomorrow. You can do what you want to do; you can laugh at neighbouring countries that people are being battered, but you have never been battered before.

DP Ruto’s camp accuses those against him like you of selling fear. Isn’t there another way of competing, I mean based on ideas?

I am talking about our country; the way we want to live. That is what concerns us.

Some of your friends say you do not keep secrets; what you are calling being forthright, has that trait cost you friends?

Of course. But you see, it will be well with your soul. Just make sure you are not lying to yourself. I am very well with my soul. That is what matters. 

Let me take you back to OKA, why does Western have three principals in it rather than rally behind one individual say Musalia?

Yes, we have Mudavadi, Wetang’ula and I. And also Gideon Moi and Kalonzo Musyoka. Leaders from western have always been divided, going in different directions. Now, we would rather that anyone else who has a party in that region to join us so that wherever the presidency is going, their votes are there and we all go in one direction. This will deal with that perception that the Luhyas are divided, though we are not. It is the leaders who go their own ways then people say, oh, those ones are divided. When you look at the data how Luhyas vote, you realise Luhyas have not been divided. When we are voting over 70 per cent in one direction, how does anybody claim you are divided? 

Does OKA stand a chance on their own without either working with Ruto or Raila, separately?

Anyone who ignores OKA would be doing so at their own peril. If we mounted serious campaigns, the presidency will be ours. There are very key leaders from Central Kenya who will be joining OKA soon. You look at the five communities that make up 65 per cent of the Kenyan population that is the Kikuyu, Luhya, Kalenjin, Luo and Kamba.

If Mzee Raila does not finally join the rest of us, out of 65 per cent and the Luos form about 8-10 per cent of the country’s population, we still have 55 per cent of this country. Then before you even look at other regions like North Eastern, Coast and the other smaller communities, we have the Kalenjin leaders with us, the Kamba leadership, we have the Luhya leadership with us, soon we will be having a majority of the Kikuyu leaders with us. 

You reckon that Central Kenya is a fertile hunting ground for all with a perception that Ruto has a head start there. Don’t you think you are going in as underdogs?

Who told you that central will not be having a presidential candidate of their own? It is possible. If central decides tomorrow that we have our own candidate and we will put him to fight for our own interests, who will vote for you from central or the mountain? In the event the mountain comes and they have a candidate and he is convincing and OKA comes and says our candidate is from the mountain, then it is a landslide.

Maybe our candidate might come from the mountain. For instance, people will talk about tribalism, where I come from, women have no tribe and that is why we vote for Florence Mutua in Busia. If Martha Karua came and says she wants to be the president, we will vote for her. Martha is trustworthy. If she says she will fight corruption, you can trust it. Martha never changes.

Has OKA formally reached out to her for possible partnership?

She is a leader, you do not look for leaders, leaders come and say, I see there is a problem in the country, let us work together and see what we can do. If Martha offered herself for presidency, I would be on the frontline convincing the OKA team to back her. If you are interested in fighting corruption for instance, I can trust Martha 100 per cent to the end. 

Do you think Gideon Moi stands a chance in the Rift?

You have seen the metamorphosis of Gideon. He is becoming a better leader daily and the Kalenjins will not be stupid if they see the country saying we want Gideon, why would they not go for him? That is another formula we are looking at.

Tomorrow in the Sunday Nation: Jirongo reveals how he went from a billionaire to pauper, the OKA presidential nomination and why he is proudly polygamous and does not keep a Will.