Somalia's President Hassan Sheikh Mohamud speaks during a past interview inside his office at the presidential palace in Mogadishu, Somalia on May 28, 2022.
Somalia's President Sheikh Hassan Mohamud spoke to Jackson Mutinda, warning that Ethiopia, which signed an MoU with breakaway Somaliland on use of its port, will not be allowed to set up a military base there.
What would you like to be remembered for in Somalia when you leave power?
One is liberating this country from terrorists. As I said in my campaign, a Somalia at peace with itself, and at peace with the rest of the world. The other is a democratic Somalia.
Let's talk about Somaliland and the deal with Ethiopia. It doesn't seem to go away, what are the issues?
There is no issue. But, unfortunately, the Horn of Africa has always been a very difficult region. The Horn of Africa is a gateway to many parts of the world, and also a strategic region that controls many aspects of the world economy.
Somalia and Ethiopia have had problems in the past. As you know, the border between Somalia and Ethiopia is a provisional one -- it's not demarcated officially. Somalia is one of the few countries that has not ratified the chapter that says colonial borders are our borders.
Because we didn't, we went to war a number of times — because of that artificial border. But, in 1991, the two states collapsed: Siad Barre (of Somalia) left and Mengistu Hailemariam (of Ethiopia) left as well. So, Somalia needed to start a new chapter, and that's what we have been working on.
The last time when I was the president, I was one of the people who initiated the Horn of Africa economic integration initiative. And that was based on a level of trust and confidence among the countries. So, after I came back, I have been meaning to pursue that level of economic integration. We have had a couple of sessions on that economic integration related to Somalia and Ethiopia in particular.
But, unexpectedly, the government of Ethiopia decided to infringe on the sovereignty of Somalia. They signed the MoU on January 1 with Somaliland.
In this globalised world, we live with a certain system --international law. A responsible government has to preserve and respect this international law.
There was no problem at all before January 1 this year. So, Somalia sees that as a big violation of its sovereignty, territorial integrity and unity. The AU, Igad, the Arab League, the United Nations, the European Union, individual countries as well. There is no one single country that supported Ethiopia’s position.
Unfortunately, it is still insisting. We are neighbours, and not by choice, so we have to live together peacefully, but we need to deal with each other in a civilised manner, respecting international law.
Somalia is grateful for the role played by the Government of Kenya under the leadership of William Ruto, who put a lot of efforts in resolving this issue. And we have some technical preliminary discussions in Nairobi. Unfortunately, our Ethiopian friends have not come in good faith for that negotiation. Number two, while that negotiation is open, and we agreed that we get back together and continue that dialogue, under the patronage of President Ruto, they went out and got other countries to mediate.
These are indications that there is no good faith and willingness by Ethiopia to resolve this problem.
The other violation is interfering in Somalia here and there without respecting the artificial boundaries. Still, we have tried not to escalate the problem. We showed a level of tolerance, and we believe that this will, one way or the other, be solved.
Our position is very clear: We do not compromise the sovereignty, territorial integrity and unity of Somalia.
Ethiopia’s intention is not clear. Sometimes they claim they need naval base on the coast of Somalia; sometimes they claim they need commercial access to the sea... we have categorically rejected a naval or military base in Somalia.
But Somalia is ready to provide commercial access to the sea, as Ethiopia has access to the Djibouti sea as it has access to Kenya. But why does someone want to take a part of the Somali territory?
There was a time Egypt was ready to come to your side…
Egypt and other Arab and African countries sided with Somalia, but that was diplomatic. There is no special agent of Somalia. Somalia and Egypt have a long history; we are friends. What Egypt did was make a clear position, as many other African countries did, but nothing more than that.
I’m asking because there was talk that Egypt could bring forces into Somalia, which would be a declaration of war with Ethiopia because of their problem over the dam.
There is no agreement or discussion between Somalia and Egypt to bring Egyptian forces. But I want to tell you one thing, desperate situations will have desperate solutions. Somalia will do everything to protect its sovereignty and territorial integrity. But we don't have any intention to get involved in a proxy war of other people.
The EAC has a standby force that was deployed in Congo. Then it came out and it's still around. Have you had any discussions about using them?
We are part of the East African Standby Force. But since we are in a war with al-Shabaab, we didn't get the chance to participate militarily in those endeavours. But yes, diplomatically and administratively, we are part of that standby force.
Would you bring them in if there was a need?
Somalia is part of EAC. Any benefit that Somalia can get is welcome. Somalia has been receiving a lot of support from the outside world.
But we, Somalis, are the only ones who are operating on the ground. We are the only fighting forces right now. The African mission forces are doing a lot of good work. They did a lot of good work that provided Somalia space to breathe and establish government and governance institutions. Still, they are holding very strategic locations, which would have been difficult to hold and continue the war.
But the fighting forces on the ground today are Somalis only. We are receiving a lot of support — technical, financial expertise, training — but we are the foot soldiers. And we want to remain the foot soldiers unless a need that arises – which we don’t see right now.
You will have a year at the UN Security Council, and some of your critics ask, is Somalia qualified to talk about the security of African peers when it is embroiled in war?
Well, Somalia is not the first country to become a member of the UN Security Council while in a unique situation. Iraq has been in that place; Mozambique is one of the three African countries and we're very grateful for the role that they have played on African issues within the UN Security Council.
I'm glad that the government of Mozambique, with the support of other African countries, has degraded the terrorists in their country. But by the time Mozambique was coming member of the UNSC there was a serious matter in the country. So, the two have no relation.
Somalia is celebrating 64 years of independence. What are the milestones being celebrated this year?
In the last 12 years, huge progress has been made in the post-state collapse era. Last time when I was the president (2012-2017), we started convincing the world that Somalia had turned the corner. We started moving the country to a different trajectory: There was a more than $5 billion debt for almost 40 years.
We pursued the debt forgiveness, and we started that process with the IMF and the World Bank in 2013. Then we requested the United Nations to lift the arms embargo, which was the longest arms embargo in the history of the United Nations. It was partially lifted, then completely lifted in the end.
And then Somalia pursued to join the East African Community, which we applied in 2011, before the end of the transition, but it didn't work. Since now Somalia has non-transitional government in place, we succeeded within a year in 2023, and we are very proud of it.
Somalia is going to be a member of the United Nations Security Council as well. All this -- debt relief, the arms embargo, lifted the joining of East Africa community and running the UN Security Council -- demonstrates that today in Somalia there is a responsible government, working in line with universally accepted governance and democratic systems. This is a country looking to become democratic.
Our Constitution has been under review for almost 12 years, and we want to finish the review. The first four chapters have been passed by the parliament in line with the provisional constitution, and another 11 chapters remain. Parliament is in recess, and when they come back they will continue reviewing the remaining chapters.
Somalia went to war with Al Shabaab. Then we came to a place where the African Union mission was meant to leave the country. Somalia did not have enough forces to replace the mission by that time and so we decided to take up that challenge.
We have to implement that decision, so now the challenge is fighting the war and generating more forces, and then establishing a governance system in the areas that have been liberated. We call it the Stabilisation Programme. So, the multiple challenges that we've been facing is the war, building the army, and equipping and training them.
Have you considered signing agreements with some of the troop-contributing countries to remain after the AU forces leave?
Not yet. We've been waiting for the instruments to be in place. Somalia and the African Union Peace and Security Council have been in dialogue for a long time. And at least now we have agreed on the next mission’s instruments, like the numbers and mandate. Everything has been agreed and the African Union has passed that agreement to the United Nations Security Council. Once the Security Council mandates the new mission, then we will be talking about the numbers and which countries will contribute.
So, we expect a new mission after Atmis?
Yes.
Are you confident about running the places that have been liberated? Because there have been reports that some regions have been liberated and then recaptured and then liberated again…
Somalia has won the war… the proof is the number of districts and territories that have been liberated. We started very close to Mogadishu, and now we are close to 900 kilometres away. In a battlefield, fighting forces can push and pull in different directions, but there is no district that has been liberated from al-Shabaab and retaken. All the FOBs (Forward Operating Bases) that we have taken over from the Atmis are still under the Somali security forces’ control, and we are taking over more frontline bases.
There have been reports that Al Shabaab is getting help from the Houthis of Yemen. Is that true?
Yes, there is collaboration between Al Shabaab and the Houthis in the northeastern part of Somalia. That's a new phenomenon. ISIS is also coming to Somalia again. But, as far as I'm concerned, Al Shabaab was the most serious and the dangerous threat to Somalia, as well as the region.
There needs to be political reforms here before you go to the next level. When are we likely to see direct voting in this country?
Since 2000, Somalia has been changing its leaders through peaceful means. But those were indirect elections, with representative colleges. The constitution review endorsed in 2012 after the end of the transition clearly indicates one person, one vote is the means to come to leadership.
Unfortunately, in the past 12 years, it didn't happen, so the indirect elections continued. One main reason was that there was no right infrastructure and the other maybe Al Shabaab occupation.
But now, we cannot keep on using the indirect election model. Since the transition ended, we have had two elections. One time 14,800 people voted, the next time 30,000 voted. This time, we want millions of Somalis to vote.
As we sit here, Grade 12 examinations are going on and the Federal Government has succeeded in peacefully conducting those examinations all over Somalia. So, if we can conduct examinations throughout Somalia, why not elections? We are not expecting that close to 20 million people will vote, no. But we are targeting a couple of million people. This is the first time in 55 years that Somalia is going to the one person, one vote.
What are your relations with federal states like?
Well, Somaliland is unique. With the remaining five federal member states, we have a National Consultative Council, where all federal member states’ leadership get together once in a while to deliberate on national issues and build consensus on those issues.
In the last two years, we have had seven consultative meetings. The Constitution says the contentious political issues will be discussed among the federal member states and the federal government, and whatever they agree consensually will be taken to Parliament, and then parliament will further deliberate and make the final decision.
So, to strengthen the federalism in Somalia, those sessions that we had discussed important governance issues that have to be federalised, such as the judiciary, taxation, the national security architecture, and resource sharing. So, we have that relationship of reforming the state into a legitimate federal system.
Of course, when these types of discussions are taking place, there is anger, arguments or counterarguments. But at the end of every meeting, there are two documents. One is the communique on what has been done and what we are going to do, and the other is the agreement on the federal issue that has been agreed, signed and endorsed.
Recently, we have had some issue with the Puntland State and we're working very hard to resolve those differences. And, definitely, we will.
How is the economy doing?
The Horn of Africa, and in particular Somalia, experienced four consecutive years of drought, and locust infestation. That has had a great impact on the economy of Somalia: Huge numbers of livestock perished during the drought and this created a demographic change, where the many of the rural people, particularly pastoralists, when they lost their herds, went to the urban places as IDPs. El Nino followed with floods, which took most of the remaining livestock and the limited infrastructure and the plantations that were re-emerging after long years of drought.
Bridges have been broken, and some parts are difficult to reach. So that was the economic impact but, other than that, in terms of people, because of the hope that has been created by the liberation from al-Shabaab, the economy is being revived. Now, when you go through Mogadishu, you can see the reconstruction going on, private investment is coming back. And there are a lot of big projects in the pipeline, which will be announced by the end of the year.
What sectors do you look at to drive the economy in the coming years?
We have three traditional sectors in the economy. One is agriculture, the other one is livestock — for us, livestock and agriculture are separate. And of course, blue economy, mainly fisheries.
Those traditional three sectors are emerging after long years of being dormant.
Somalia has the longest coastline on the continent. This is an ideal place for a logistical hub. Of course, we have the challenge of not having enough infrastructure, but Somalia is preparing to position itself in that greater economic endeavour for the region as well as the continent.
You joined the East African Community in 2023 and you sounded very optimistic. What is it that Somalia looks to benefit from that membership?
There are two issues. The short and medium-term benefit is for the Somali people. When this country was not having a conducive environment for business, Somalis went out into the region, and they started businesses. So, joining the East African bloc is to protect those Somali investments.
The long-term benefit is, as I said, Somalia can be a logistical hub for the continent and then we will have a lot of opportunities in agriculture, food security, and livestock.
Last year you got that debt forgiveness that you were seeking for a long time. You basically got a clean slate now to borrow and develop the economy. So, where are you putting the finances?
We have chosen a private sector-driven economy. Of course, the government has its own role. So, we are not going to take loans for the sake of loans. The government will have loans for the public service delivery, and concessional loans.
Somalia will pursue public-private partnerships as well. As of now, we are strengthening our financial institutions so that we are sure that once we take loan, that loan will be repaid. We don't want somebody to go back after a couple of years, to the World Bank or the IMF and request debt relief again.
You mentioned the impact of climate change. Are there particular programmes that you have for resilience to help people often driven out by flooding, people who suffer drought?
Somalia has established the Ministry of Environment and Climate Change. And we have a good number of initiatives for addressing the issue of climate change like the Green Somalia Initiative.
And for the people that have been displaced by climate change, we are pursuing programmes to give them another opportunity. you know, one of the difficulty issues is accessing the global financing for climate change. You need institutions, and those institutions have to be accredited. Somalia is now only building those institutions.
You have oil and gas deposits. Do you want to exploit them in the face of this position that we need to keep our fossil fuels in the ground in view of the clean energy transition? What is the plan?
Well, the countries or the multilaterals have their own strategic intention. But Somalia intends to explore and exploit its natural resources. And the oil exploration is not different from the economic areas -- like the fisheries and agriculture. Somalia is working very hard to explore and exploit oil, gas, gold or any other minerals that we have.
