Charity Ngilu: Why I believe Kibaki should have appointed me Vice President 

You were very close to Mwai Kibaki before he became president and somewhat after. Was he contemplating picking Raila as his vice-president in what would have short-changed Wamalwa like some accounts seem to suggest?

Not at all. We were very clear because after they (LDP) joined us, we told them we were already a team of three and we had already said the President is Kibaki, the Vice-President is Wamalwa and the person to be Prime Minister, were that to happen, would be me. But when we came together, I said, for me, and for this country, I would let Raila be the Prime Minister. Folks from LDP were very accommodative.

Even after Wamalwa’s death, the President still favoured a Luhya to be his vice. I had initially pushed him and told him I was the right person to be the Vice-President after Wamalwa’s death since I was a member of the original trio, but I think there were others who also pushed him to pick a Luhya. I told him to remember we were the three of us at the start.

What contingency measures did you have, assuming the incumbents, Kanu, did not agree to hand over power even after losing the polls?

There was no way they were not going to concede by the way. That was something they could not contemplate, given the huge margin of defeat. I think Uhuru Kenyatta, then leader of opposition, got something like 1.5 million votes and Kibaki was at 3.6 million votes and counting. How would they not concede? It was so overwhelming!

Then came the death of the Narc dream; what caused it?

You know, after 2005, there were some disagreements. But even before that was the matter of an MoU that was never honoured. We had formed ourselves in what we called The Summit, a clique who would closely work with the President going forward and consult, with unfettered access to him, so we could continue with the dream. We had four principals when it appeared some principals did not matter enough, their supporters were very disgruntled, very unhappy, just like it happened in Nasa.

We read that the Summit was on a number of occasions locked out of State House and generally from accessing the President...

President Kibaki was at one time not very well soon after he took over and may not have been in charge. Sometimes newspapers also exaggerate things. They may talk of a big elephant in the room when it is actually a small ant.

In 2013 you were negotiating a political pact with Raila only to cross over to Uhuru’s side the next day. What informed that move?

We were going to sign the deal then out of the blue they said they could not sign with me, that they would only sign with Kalonzo.

Having worked with Uhuru, why didn’t you fold Narc like others did to join Jubilee in 2017?

Women-led parties are few in this country and should remain firm and provide leadership because the easy part for people to do to a woman leader is to deny them party nomination. Look at Martha Karua, for example, she has remained with Narc-Kenya and kept it strong. That’s the way to go.

How was it running against Moi in 1997? Masaa ya Ngilu was quite a sensation...

It was very exciting because we realised it’s doable. What I should have done from 1997 was to get down to serious business, to make money for another stab in the subsequent elections and make my ideology of social democratisation more popular. When you have your own resources, you can mount a very serious presidential campaign. 

In 2002, it was the same social democracy that we brought to Narc and we worked with it. We started with Mwai Kibaki in DP and Kijana Wamalwa in Ford-Kenya before Raila came on board. You remember the famous “Kibaki Tosha” by Raila? From there, we said let us go forward with an agenda. Other than the MoU we signed, we also had an agenda which Narc started with, like infrastructure development, which Kibaki did very well on. Then, of course, Uhuru came to take over from Kibaki. Uhuru, I must say, has been very keen on infrastructure and even added something else, the Big Four Agenda.

How were you able to attract political and academic stalwarts like Anyang Nyong’o, Njehu Gatabaki, Beth Mugo and others then under SDP (Social Democratic Party)?

They did not believe in me, but in the agenda to lift Kenyans from the dungeons of poverty. In a social democracy, you jumpstart me and then leave me to go on my own. When, for instance, we have many people making garments like we are doing and earning a living from it, that’s more sustainable, in my view.

How do you compare working under President Kibaki and President Uhuru, separately?

They are very different. I found Kibaki very accommodating. He also left you to do your work and absolutely stood with you. And he did not make it appear as if there were some of us who were more important than others, so the Cabinet was very cohesive. He was a man of a big heart, very magnanimous. 

Also, we had one person with us who was always available and worked very hard called Ambassador Francis Muthaura. Because of his long time and experience in service, he was very effective and we consulted very much with him. We continued even after the nusu mkate (coalition) government after the 2007 polls. Kibaki also did not show that he was uncomfortable with any of us even after we had opposed him in the elections.

What of Uhuru?

Uhuru is a great leader. One thing I know about the President is that when you ask him something, he will answer you immediately and you will follow quickly. I can give you examples before he was the President; when he was the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, even after we had opposed him in 2007, I walked into his office when I was the Minister of water and told him: “Can you please agree to do our Thwake Dam?” We needed Sh13 billion to do this. 

He did not check which part of the country or political divide I had come from, he just asked where it was and he called Kamau Thugge and told him to look into it. He said: “Charity, come tomorrow”. I went there the next day and he set the ball rolling. I think he is just interested in developing our country. 

That is the kind of a leader we are looking for. Somebody who does not look at where you are from before choosing to help.

That is when he was the Deputy Prime Minister. What of now as the President?

He has continued with the same trend. Recently, I have been asking him about this Kitui-Katulani-Kavisuni-Kanyangi road to connect with Thwake Dam and Wote. Its construction has since been advertised. This is a person who has no qualms with anybody and does not first check if this person helped me or what this person said before. When you see him talk ill about somebody, it is because that person deserves it.

In 2003, as the Health Minister, you caused a stir when you declined to read a speech on Worlds Aids Day, and instead paraded a young parent and her child who were facing imminent death in front of the President. What strides has the country made in the fight against HIV/Aids, and what was that all about?

The lady is Jackline. She was very sick and I said I do not have a speech because the speech is right here sitting next to me. She was so sick and was holding her baby and they were both going to die. It was actually my first World Aids Day ceremony as a minister. It was a big statement, and I remain proud of that. 

The World Health Organzation had told me that, as minister, I had the President’s ear and so I could convince him to make the war against the disease a priority, but my PS (permanent secretary) told me: “We can never allow it. It is too expensive and therefore I cannot give you a written speech to that effect.” 

So I said Jackline would be my speech and when she gave her speech about how she was suffering and she had marks all over her skin, pimples all over her face and her baby was crying and emaciated, that was it. I remember saying: “Mr President, your excellency, that is your work to do. You can save her life if only we can agree to give ARVs.”

What was the President’s reaction?

He was shocked. He didn’t see it coming. Then he said: “Just give them the ARVs.” And it became a policy right away. When the President gives a directive, it only calls for compliance. Today we have saved many lives.

Kicotec has been hailed as a game-changer in the brief life of devolution, but it faces opposition from within. Critics say you never involved them at its inception. Do you think they have a point?

They do not understand it. And if they can’t understand this, what will I tell them? If they think it is a waste of money, it is corruption, they think that those poor, young people who we have trained and are working there do not matter, what can I tell them? They do not associate the number of jobs we have created there with devolution and the money that goes out of this country to buy these same things. 

What can you do in such a case? You just continue! This morning I saw many MCAs asking: “Really, these shoes are made in Kitui?” I said yes, in Kitui we have power, water, infrastructure and we can do this. These people do not just get it, but they are not the only ones. We have to do the right thing and ignore the noise.

In 2017 there were three women governors then, sadly, the country lost Dr Joyce Laboso of Bomet. Now we have Ann Kananu in Nairobi. What is the projected 2022 outlook according to you? Do you think we are going to get more women governors?

Yes, we are going to get more women governors. I am looking at Nyanza and the Coast. I am hoping Kananu can retain it. In Ukambani I expect my sister Wavinya Ndeti to take Machakos, and I expect to retain mine.

What is your beef with charcoal traders in Kitui?

No, I have no beef with charcoal traders. It is called climate change. Look at the drought right now in this country, our animals are dying. Look at what is happening. Can you afford that, really? Look at how rivers are affected by sand harvesting. I have no beef with anybody. I am just saying we have got to protect our environment.

How do you rate your performance?

I have done so much, let me just give an example of Kicotec. I did not help those employed there so that they can elect me again. No, I helped them because today, none of them queues outside my office or waits for handouts from this county to pay for their children’s school fees. This is something I am very proud of. 

The other thing I am proud of is the Kitui County Empowerment Fund that has helped people start self-sustaining businesses. I used the money I got for Covid-19 to set up a post-Covid future. A lot of people lost their jobs and now, here we are. 

I am convinced that we do not live in a poor nation, what this country needs, and lacks now, is leadership to tell people “this is what we should do, this is the training”. Our polytechnics are putting our young people there for two years, which is too long. The young people we train to make garments here take only 60 days to master the trade.

Let’s talk about your unceremonious exit from the Cabinet in 2015, when you were named in a corruption list of shame. Do you sometimes feel you received unfair treatment from the President?

They say the truth vindicates one in the end. For me, that is neither here nor there. You know the hazards of work and the things that people do every day. People will tell lies about you, others will be happy for you. If it happens, you take it in stride. That belongs in the past.

Do you miss your days in the Cabinet?

I think it is a service and I have served before. As a Minister of Health and also of Water, I achieved a great deal of successes. These wins were not for me and neither were they for my family, they were for the people.

Young people who left Form Four used to suffer so much to get admitted to medical training colleges, now we have a KMTC here, just as we do Kitui Teachers Training College. At Kwa Vonza, we have a university and the Tanathi Water Services Board is right here. We influenced these things. I did my best while it lasted and that’s what matters.

The terror inmates who had escaped were arrested in your county. How do we keep the country safe?

Those who apprehended them did so well. They were not afraid, they worked very well and boldly. They had a choice of saying, “let’s not get involved because these are dangerous criminals, we could get killed, if not by these people who were too weak, then their counterparts”, but they acted very well. This is great.

I also tell our security forces to be really careful and not to gamble with Kenyans’ lives. We must be more vigilant. I mean, these people could have gone out and come back with vengeance and killed many of us.

These people are killers and they do not care about lives. They have nothing to lose. Well done to our security officers and the woman who alerted them. I hope they will be paid the Sh60 million reward quickly. It is only fair that way.

What’s your view of One Kenya Alliance?

I do not know, but I really want to know their agenda.

But you can’t really ignore them, they could win the presidency or force a re-run and deny your preferred candidate a win and hand it over to the other side, the side you don’t support...

It would be very wrong for people who know each other, who have worked together and can still work together, to do that. It is not just about Kalonzo, or Musalia, or Wetang’ula; the agenda is Kenya and the Kenyan people. If they are doing it to force a re-run, who tells them there will be a re-run? How about if Raila wins outright? How about that?

Why is it taking too long to solve the cross-border tension between Kitui and Garissa counties?

We get little food in our farms and then you have camels crossing over and eating our food, and then the herders come and say, “these are shrubs, mere plants”. I know our neighbours have the right to rear their camels and they really love their animals, but for us, those camels are not as important as the crops. 

Although crops may not be as expensive or make as much money as the camels, we are attached to our crops as they are sources of food. It is not right for the herders to say our crops are just grass to their camels. I told my people to protect themselves within the law. I never incited anyone. When somebody breaks into your house, you don’t just sit there and clap for them.

What is your parting shot?

I would love to tell Kenyans that nothing is lost. President Kenyatta, after taking over from President Mwai Kibaki, has done his bit. The person who takes over should give us real development and opportunities for growth. 

Train people, stop some of these imports that are not necessary, build our young people, and make Kenya proud. It is about building Kenya and buying Kenya. 

Also read:  Ngilu: The problem with our politics is an appalling lack of vision